Thank you for displaying this wedding picture of the newly weds. We are praying for the two of you for what all God may have in store for you in the future. God bless this marriage always.

YOU ARE LOVED AND YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!!!

we know education is an important part of discipleship, but can end up being only that. How is Ginghamsburg changing to the model you are speaking of?

Mike I read your blog on "Priesthood of all Believers" with great interest. I spent my first fifty years as a Christian as a member of a denomination that emphasised this docrtrin very strongly. The problem that I saw with this doctrine, was the lack of a strong "professonal" leaership to lead and disciple a "pristhood of all believers." Coming to Ginghamsburg has shown me was a difference "profeesional leadership" can do to develop a priesthood of all believers. I am enjoying my servanthood role under the leadership of professionals with clear lines of authority and accountability. Keep on keeping on your Spirit lead ministry

I too believe strong leadership is indispensible. The Worker is worth his/her keep. I can't really see there being a sense of unity or belonging w/o people to believe in & trust for your growth. I was just wondering how a church would make that transition from paid staff to little or no paid staff. When some are immature or lack growth or a sense of balance & priorities, those who are paid step in to pick up the slack. I know that's not ideal, but it's reality I think. I have trouble with believing people being able to function at the level of efficiency & unity as paid staff. They usually have other jobs, etc. I'm wondering how that would work effectively. Anyone? Sincerely, MC

I believe that leadership is very important in a church body. It brings to light the whos, whys, and whats of our walks as children of God. I have learned so much at Ginghamsburg thanks to the pastors and other leaders. I have learned what it means to be the hands and feet of Jesus, and have a better understanding of why my involvement with the church is so important. I love to volenteer, and so see those who are struggling come to a safe and loving enviornment and learn about Jesus and what he did for others. Thank you all for bringing all fo this to light for me. And bless you Mike, for inspiring me.

I've always thought that church buildings are anchors many times, resulting in slowing the church activity and mission down. The tent of meeting was a better system in many respects. It was portable, could be set up quickly, and didn't need electricity or fuel oil! Church buildings are both a blessing and a curse. I think we need to re-think the necessity of church buildings and go back to the practices of the early church.

Tents probably would be a good idea for meeting. Our culture & generation is so conditioned to comfort. There is something about meeting together all in one place as many as possible. Let's face it, it was pretty good weather there in Israel back then & people were used to limited furnishings, etc. Now in the warmer states, it would make sense to have minimal coverage, but I guess we have to deal where we are. What about tent meetings in warm weather & building meetings in cold weather. or another pole barn. Those things are pretty good. You could even slap some solar panels on or solar shingles & tell people that the "cheese stick" party is over. The coffees not bad but why can't we just bring a cup from home as long as it's just coffee in there. ha, ha. Sometimes people like to have it a little rough to feel they are strong or that they can handle it. Maybe meet all together to keep the collective vision going & meet more often in homes. I don't know. I'm just rambling. A portable stage would be cool with maybe some angels doing the singing in the background. If God would go for it, what a sweet thing I'd put together. Maybe if I keep asking, I may just talk Him into it. One never knows.

I've been reading of people beginning to share their homes with other families who are experiencing hard times. It helps them pay their house payment and the other family gets a home. Maybe what we need to do as Christ's body, is do the classes, bible study's etc in our homes, and begin to share our buildings with other churches, sharing both the expense of staff, buildings, etc. There are 7 days a week to have service. Theoretically, you could have 5-7 churches meet in one building, depending on how many services each needed. Of course, we're talking about demonstrating a level of unity we are no where near yet, and letting go of programs....but just a thought. I know of a Messianic church that shares space with another church. I think the diversity COULD be really cool, if the Bride showed up.

Im thankful to be in a church that doesnt want to build and ask for money every 5 mins for it and to use its income wisely for the mission and purpose to do his will.

Mike, One of the many things I have always respected about you and Ginghamsburg was the focus on ministry and mission over brick and mortar. I can't tell you how many times I have been to Ginghamsburg and thought, "Man, this building really IS modest for a congregation this size!" We are running three services, looking into multisite, trying to minimize building cost... and you have been a huge inspiration in that. So thanks for being a prophetic voice in this age of bigger and better.

I agree. Jesus certainly did not need "bricks and mortar" to fulfill his mission.

Even though Jesus traveled around the area teaching, preaching & healing, He spent a good deal of time in the synagogues preaching even though most of the time He wasn't welcome by the Jewish leaders. They're thinkin', "He's gonna undermine authority." So while He didn't "work" for the brick & mortar so to speak in the sense of the priests, He did spend time there teaching. I guess just not all the time. We live in the 21st century. We can't expect our ministries to look exactly like Jesus' ministry. He had a different life, culture, atmosphere & situation. Sure the church can cut back on unnecessaries, but I think Jesus' point was that it's vastly important to accept Him, but also that what we do outside the brick & mortar meeting place is equally as important as what we do inside...and that..my friends...is the rest of the story. ha

Right on Jay, The Son of Man didn't eve have a place to lay his head.

Build it and the payments will come! The other dilemma Mike points out is that once you build it you've got to maintain it. Modest is good.

Necessity, who is the mother of invention…

How we define necessity is key.

Beautiful and timely...I don\'t always remember it, but I\'m growing in it. What has been on my mind a lot since I\'ve been to the woodshed recently, is that the gift of God comes through imperfect humans...our imperfections do not negate the truth we\'ve been given to impart. So easy for that to become a wall..or a filter which colors everything the person says. Isn\'t it beautiful that God hides...makes us search to find Him. That used to frustrate me...ok..maybe it still does on occasion..but I recognize the value of it. We have as much of God as we want. Our disillusionment, and hunger is a gift.

This is such a timely subject. I so see God\'s movement in it.

I had to set up some boundaries with my brother & others when I began to take care of my Mother full time. I don\'t want to discuss their issues just to say that they were at a place where they couldn\'t empathize with my situation & responsibilities.

There continued to be problems as time went on & my husband finally had to share his heart in what I thought was a very honest & humble way. My brother basically felt that I put my husband up to it & began threatening me via email & just really being abusive. During this time, I could really get a sense of where he was in his growth. I felt so blessed in the midst of the stress & pain that God was giving me an opportunity to see a few similarities in my own behavior & attitude, but also allowing it as a growth experience in dealing with very difficult people. I began to see God\'s Words & attitude expressed as I prayed about it. The things I wanted to say, I shared in a much more effective way. Anyway, I was able to keep the necessary boundaries in place while still allowing my brother to feel a sense of control, dignity, & power in the situation. We disagree on things & through my experience, I am more able to allow people to be where they are without feeling like I have to fix it. Or fix them. This blog topic was so helpful & so was Lisa\'s comment. It gave me more knowledge so that I can have wisdom in dealing with people which I really want to learn how to do. Role-playing always was such an impactful way of learning for me & God was able to help me see in this situation how abusive I could be in some situations that were emotionally provoking for me. I was afraid my brother was going to hurt me and/or our family. That\'s how bad it\'s been. My husband is learning all he can about court proceedings for menacing & harrassment because he says if it happens again, he\'s taking that type of action. I desperately don\'t want things to be that way, but I understand his concern. Anyway..it\'s made me see how important it is and why Jesus said to speak the truth in love & also to have wisdom about how much truth a person can handle at their level of growth including myself. Such a multi-faceted experience. I\'m trying to build up my home & it\'s seems so many forces are seeking to tear it down. My husband & youngest son are such blessings to me. They build up & create life & ease burdens. What a difference. It\'s an amazing thing to see the difference between the working of darkness & the Holy Spirit in relationships and how they are impacted, and even how we learn & grow from the harmful ones even though they may work our last nerve & we could say \"so & so is supposed to be a Christian (which my brother professes). Why are they behaving in a particular manner. It\'s gotta be of the devil.\" Maybe that portion of their behavior is still controlled by the flesh & further instigated by the enemy, but there are those who bring such life & so much the opposite for us, and they help us get through the situations with the difficult stuff. Man I know their gonna have to cut some of this out. It is just so what is going on right now. I am so happy to share. I can see the importance of a mediator, etc. This was a very much needed topic. Thanks.

Amen Mike! As our good friend Lynn Kubal used to say - \"don\'t major in the minor things that can divide, but focus on the major thing - Jesus Christ.\"

Well stated Mike. I am always reminded of Proverbs 17:27-28 when I think I have all the answers \"A man of knowledge uses words with restraint, and a man of understanding is even-tempered. Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.\"

The devil loves it when he can create divisions among Christians and will use any platform...church, politics etc... to get it done.

There is only One who has all the answers. The older I grow the more I know that my responsibility is not so much providing the answers but bringing others to the Answer.

But, did you have a Patio Burger, Patio donut, Sloopy's pizza, or Toft's ice cream?

Such a poignant reminder during this message series. It\'s impossible to disseminate where the Spirit is leading us without being in the Word. Thanks, M.

All that Christ spoke to the disciples was brought to their rememberance by the Holy Spirit after pentecost. They began to understand so many profound things the Lord taught them. There have been times that I\'ve only read & studied a scripture just once and the Holy Spirit would recall it to my rememberance at a pivotal time. Normally it takes many readings though & it seems even after many years, I can still have a wonderful experience reading a scripture I\'ve read many a time..even when I get the same thing out of it I have before.

His Word dwells in us & we become like a bible: well-worn & written in. His love is written on our hearts. We act out His Word in faith & become His Word to all. I guess we should look a lot like our bibles. Mine certainly doesn\'t look like the one in the picture above. I suppose I should get crackin\'.

I appreciate GUM\'s role in my becoming stable in my beliefs & allowing me to mature in Christ. God is God. I\'m not. I\'m over it. I think I\'m gonna go read my bible for a while. Jesus is Lord.

When my grandfather died, my mother gave me his New Testament, it was really worn. He has notes all over it and verses underlined. I love reading what he has written in his Bible and wonder what he must have been thinking about. Now I am going to start looking at my friends Bibles and see what they write in their\'s.

My father passed away in November. My mom gave his bible to my son (Jake). Jake had a very close relationship with his grandpa. We both loved reading his notes, seeing his handwriting, reading what verses seemed to mean alot to him, and what he thought about them. Now Jake is preparing to be deployed to Afganistan in just a couple of months. He told me he can\'t take much but he plans to take his grandpas little bible. It makes me cry. That gift is precious treasure to Jake now and I suspect will be even more precious in the year ahead. Daddy was given a bible (I think from his mom) which he took with him when he went to war during World War II. When he was wounded in combat he lost that bible. I hope someone found it and it made a difference.

I have at least 5 bibles. From the NASB study bible which rocks to various other study bibles. I just can\'t bring myself to really write too much in them because well I don\'t know why. I\'ve decided to take one and do all the writing in that one. That way if I just want to read without the writing distracting me, I can do that with the other bibles. My Mom was so turned off by religion, she wouldn\'t even have one in the house. Besides doing crossword puzzles, it\'s all I ever really read except for directions on how to put stuff together. I\'d like to start one to pass on. It\'s really a good idea. I loved Suzanne\'s story. I\'m sure that little bible made a difference for someone if not many.

I will say this has impressed me, i have always been afraid to write in my bible or get it messy, but I like this idea of notes and things. Im gettin out the pen and hilighter....

I was glad to hear that I\'m not the only person who doesn\'t write in their Bibles. I currently have seven (gave two others away) and they\'re all note-free.
I\'m not sure if my apprehension is from thinking that it is a Holy book and shouldn\'t be scribbled in (in case I need to swear on a stack of them) or if I just want to keep them pristine (in case I ever have to sell them on eBay).
The idea of writing in just one of them is a good one, other than, what if I\'m reading another one and want something highlighted? Do I run and get the highlighted one?
They\'re in different locations, including one in my car and one I only for my TJ.
I could break down and highlight whichever one I\'m reading, but then I would have to cross-reference or pick a \"master\" Bible and do a weekly highlighting from all the others.
This is all too confusing. However, I am inspired to buy some highlighters. Are there any erasable ones?

In service yesterday, 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 was referred to while discussing Holy Spirit power. When I turned to that chapter and verse, it was already highlighted. I then added notes in the margin to include the specific message of the day. I write in all my books.

While growing up, my parents had this huge bible that sat on the end table but was never used. It had to be 5-6” thick. We all had our individual bibles we received from Holy Communion usually with a zipper pouch for a rosary. I look forward to seeing my parents next time and finally looking to see what’s in that big red bible. My check list for church always includes my bible and Pentel.

Barry, man, I can relate. ha, ha

I am physically unable to attend church right now. Your blog is a wonderful reminder that we, as a church, stand with and behind you, who are doing the best things you can identify to follow Jesus. Thank you for sharing the details of your Middle East trip! As so often before, you have been at the right and best place to be at the right (although possibly NOT the best) time! Thank you for allowing a poor wretch like me to vicariously participate in your righteous efforts!

Very interesting topic. Sometimes I think we as Christians interpret the scriptures about God knowing the end from the beginning with a kind of \"fate\" mentality. I\'ve wrestled with that one myself. When God says He sees the end from the beginning, He does that while taking into account all of our actions and prayers, etc. So, while He does know the choices we\'ve made & will make as well as how things will be at certain points in history, we don\'t, and He leaves the choice of prayer & action on behalf of His Kingdom to us. Although He is always prompting all men to repent and all repentant ones to move on behalf of the Kingdom, the secret things belong to God, and He offers hope to all all the time. That\'s how & why we walk by faith. We should respond in reality, and that being that we don\'t know the end from the beginning, and so give it all ya got. No effort is wasted. I like the times when things come together, and people say, Ohh, now we get it. I think of the trip to Israel as a seed that has yet to fully manifest. No seed planted from the Kingdom is without Kingdom effect. Knowledge is power also and the trip gives personal insight for purpose of prayer, etc.

I think also that we expect the Jews to somehow be superior even though as a whole, they are not converted. Even after what they\'ve been through, there still seems to be a remarkable amount of pride there.

Testimonies have power & prophecy does the warfare when we are given information about future events. The faith-building it produces in us and others is phenomonal. Any time God has revealed any detail about a future thing, it has created an amazing faith & sense of purpose & direction in my life, and the lives of others. I can\'t even imagine what it must be for God. To know literally everything. I\'m sure in our state, we couldn\'t take it. To get our mind around God would be like putting Him in a box. Like killing Him in a sense. Still, it\'s hard to be us sometimes. The not knowing. Or at least not knowing what God does.

Mike, I\'m not sure how I feel about the video on this post. If the mission is peace, I\'m not sure what the point of stirring up feelings against Israel accomplishes. That might not have been the intention, but that\'s what it does...what else could it do? If the point of all of this is reconciliation, then it seems inappropriate to stir up negative sentiments against Israel, and sympathy for the Palestinians. Shouldn\'t we stir the love for both? Why is it necessary to help expose.....love covers a multitude of sins. You were the most important person there in that group. You represented Christ(officially and personally) and his purpose. The rest represented their philosophy\'s, traditions, maybe politics, or possibly just high ideals. I feel we need to be on our toes, and guard against using worldly wisdom to accomplish Christ purpose. The scripture \"what communion has darkness with light\" comes to mind. We can be unequally yoked in more ways than just marriage. We are to be holy, different. That video felt like what I see if I watch any number of tv news, depending of course on the personal slant of the network. Are there any video\'s of Palestinians and Israelies expressing desire for peace? Exhibiting love for one\'s enemy? A committment to compromise? Show those. We certainly won\'t endear them to each other by featuring one victimizing the other. And that\'s been on both sides. Focus on what\'s noble, beautiful, worthy, honorable in both cultures.

I can\'t even imagine what it would be like to be faced with so many enemies on every side who don\'t want to admit I have a right to exist. What has happened to this shopkeeper is awful. You are right that there are problems on both sides, but if the radically violent Palestinians would stop lobbing bombs at Israeli civilians and admit Israel has the right to simply exist, I suspect that would be a great movement forward toward a real and workable solution.

Why are we not connected to the church in Israel? If we\'re looking for hope of reconciliation, I would think that would be a good place to begin. Asher Intrater, a messianic Jew, has a ministry there that also serves the needy palestinians in the area. I\'ve heard him teach, and feel like he has a prophetic voice for Israel.

House Demolition is a controversial tactic used by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) against Palestinians in Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and against Jewish communities during the course of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict... Official IDF explanations for house demolitions include use as a counter-insurgency security measure to impede or halt militant operations, as a regulatory measure to enforce building codes and regulations, and as deterrence against the resistance movement in the occupied territories by punishing those suspected of aiding militants, and/or their families. This from Wikipedia…

Netanyahu and the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, both say they are ready to resume talks without preconditions. However, all such negotiations are in effect suspended. While in Washington recently, Obama encouraged Netanyahu to take the bull by the horns – so to speak – and get serious about the peace movement. Hopefully, the same message will be sent to the Palestinian leader.

One of the Israeli demands is that Iran forgo its nuclear program before talks with the Palestinians can resume. A positive relationship between the two sides could be used to force Iran into compliance. We’ll see where that goes.

Mike, I appreciate your contribution this forum challenges us with. I for one didn’t really understand fully the Israeli-Palestinian conflict like I should have.

I\'m glad you went to the middle east. I knnow that some people look at scripture and say what is the use it will come to a bad end.But before Israel became a nation again people interpeted Israel to mean the church. We need to get back to basics. Love the Lord and love people thats are part in this life. We need to work for peace and justice. The kingdom of God is now. Let us enlarge the kingdom today

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

The peace that Jesus speaks of is peace with God through faith in Him; there is no other way to have peace with God; this is why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace. This is why Jesus said, "My peace I leave with you...not the peace the world gives i.e. false peace treaties, made but not meant to be kept; unsaved man cannot keep treaties, even peace treaties. They are out for power and financial gain and control. We are to pray for the Peace of Jerusalem, that Peace that will reign for a thousand years (eternity?); The Psalmist said, "I am for peace, but when I speak, they are for war..." and so it is with man today..."They will say, "peacd and safty, peace and safety; but there will be no peace...!

Through my years as a Christian, I have developed a strong passion to ask people why they believe what they believe. All kinds of people of all kinds of faiths. I want to challenge them to really examine their beliefs, but first I just want to know all about them, and hear their stories. It\'s a marvelous experience to see people really seek God\'s perspective & will in their lives. No one is ever unaffected by talkig to God. I guess that\'s a step further than what is going on with the group that traveled with you to Israel, but It was something that I wanted to share because it\'s really just come to me recently, and we hold on to those religious toupees with all of our might sometimes. Personally, I pretty much had mine stapled down. Being challenged in my faith made my life so much better.

\"Christians want to torture people. Well, maybe they don’t want to ACTUALLY torture people, they just want other people to torture people. More than any other group in a recent survey.\"

That was the opening paragraph from a recent blog I read at www(dot)conversantlife(dot)com/global-concerns/christians-supporting-torture-how-ugly-can-it-get

Not only are Christians the largest demographic to support torture but people unaffiliated with *any* religious organization were *least* likely to back torture.

Huh?

Christians try to defend torture by equivocating what, exactly defines torture. So the WWJD test tells you that, yes Jesus would advocate water-boarding? How about broomstick rape? Sorry if that last one offends your K-Love ears but that is exactly the kind of thing were talking about. Would you like to have any of the above done to yourself? How about a wife or a daughter?

Oh wait - Christians and their loved ones don\'t *deserve* it like [insert current list of undesirables here] do. Try replacing current undesirables [terrorists] with undesirables from 200 years ago [slaves] and does the \"but they deserve it\" defense still hold? God help you if you answer yes.

Do torture-supporting Christians really want to go down in history judged in the same way that Christians who advocated slavery are? My God, aren\'t we better than that? Isn\'t this way of life Jesus taught not up for negotiation and equivocation? Isn\'t there some sort of cognitive dissonance when you say to yourself \"Jesus likes torture?\" I don\'t care if the United States does open itself up to attack because we didn\'t torture our enemies. My principles - God\'s principles - don\'t allow me to support evil perpetrated on another human being, no matter how deserving of it I think they are. We will not bring good upon ourselves or the world by employing evil.

Couldn\'t agree with you more, Mike.

Chris, it\'s good to mourn what you see wrong. I thought though, you needed some encouragement. Before Jesus comes back the church will be beautiful. He is refining and shaking it down. Mourning is a good thing, as long as it brings about a redemptive solution. Don\'t let the extremist\' steal your joy. Elijah felt alone too but there are many Jesus followers who are committed to wholeheartedness and living by the spirit of the law. Let it provoke you, but to love and prayer..for mercy for this country, the church, no matter what has to happen or what will be the vehicle.
Isa 60:1-3
Arise, shine;
For your light has come!
And the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.
2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the LORD will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you.
3 The Gentiles shall come to your light,
And kings to the brightness of your rising.
NKJV

Eph 5:26-28

26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
NKJV
Rev 19:7-8
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.\" 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Are we talking about enhanced interrogation techniques or torture because I feel there is a big difference. I’ll come back to that in a moment. When President Obama authorized the Navy Seals to shoot and kill pirates off the coast of Africa, wasn’t that worse than torture – those poor boys died. Most American’s hailed Obama as a hero and said good riddance to the thugs. I don’t think that’s what Jesus would have done. I myself felt a little American pride but it didn’t last long. However, I think the President did what he had to do. We live in a world that needs drastic brutal action at times.

Speaking for myself, I come to church to be more in touch with God and to be and act more religious. I love the fellowship. I don’t care if you talk about the space shuttle as long as there is a fulfilling message. I do not agree with you politically on some things but that doesn’t bother me at all; it used to but we grow.

Back to the torture - If we make an enemy uncomfortable to gain strategic information, I’m fine with that. If we use the broom stick in an unconventional way, I’m not. This whole topic from a national perspective is to draw constituents into a political camp. Were all pawns.

There was an American journalist named Daniel Pearl who worked for the Wall Street Journal and was based in Mumbai, India. He was murdered back in 2002 – beheaded by a group headed by Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh in Pakistan. If his rescue could have been conducted with a military technique known as water boarding, do you think his parents would have approved? That’s the question. If we are willing to let our own children die at the hands of the most brutal people known just to say “I don’t believe in torture” I think were living an untruthful existence. Remember the pirates, that was certainly worse than torture…..

If I am honest with myself, what would I do if my children were about to be killed by someone? Would I kill to protect them? What if they were kidnapped? Would I risk it all to save their lives?

I don\'t think most \"Christians\" would like my responses.

Rich B your post was very insightful, it made me examine this issue more closely.

Chris your posting deeply disturbed me. Especially the part were you said....\"My principles - God\'s principles\" Wow, maybe we need to change the saying to what would Chris do?

You know, the Church is not the world & the world will do things differently than we do. Without faith, we are left to our own human reasoning to solve problems & issues. Not having the wisdom of God, but only of man to solve problems does lead people to make less-than-spiritually-mature decisions. It\'s expected. If they ask us or we have an option of voting on an issue, then we get to put our two-cents in, and thankfully in this country, we get to do that often. You are so right I think that torture does terrible things to us on both sides. I\'d rather be just straight-up killed outright than tortured. ick. As a Christian, it is hard to deal with sometimes that I\'m here to represent another kingdom. Unfortunately, that requires my suffering in a world without faith. I think that\'s how they get their faith. Seeing us being willing to do it another way. I think many of us are learning how to effectively make a difference even politcally w/o compromising our faith. We do what we can & leave it up to God I guess. If you\'re quoting scripture from the pulpit, then you\'re prophesying. Expect people to blame you for speaking God\'s perspective. I\'m sure you can handle it.

Good to have you home Mike!
Whether local or abroad,\"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.\" Matt 5:9

Thank you for your wisdom and knowledge Mike. I am grateful that you reinforce standing on that moral higher ground and without daily prayer and the word of God, it is easy to default to my human sinful nature. Also, thank you for touching on how it effects the soul of the person inflicting the torture. How many people of faith will we loose or have lost to suicide because they will not be able to make right what they have done in their mind, heart, and soul?

Chris, The good is there though there are days that we struggle to see it because we are overwhelmed with the violence of our world. I pray you are comforted by Lisa\'s words. Stand strong that mustard-seed can see you through.

Braden, you misunderstood what I meant but admittedly I worded it poorly. What I meant in a nutshell was that I have adopted (or am trying to adopt) the way to live as God explained it. You have to be able to make some kind of value-based judgement in order to live by God\'s will. So when I say that I try to exercise the principle of \"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you\" into my life, all I am saying is that I am adopting the principles/values/laws God laid out before us -- so that my principles and beliefs are those that come from God, not the world\'s. I\'m not fool enough or arrogant enough to believe that my life is a perfect example of how to live or that God == me. At some point a person can say with honesty that he or she is trying to live their life according to God without equating themselves to God, right? Of course I also understand, for example, every gay-hating (hating - not disapproving) Christian believes they are living out of God\'s principles too so maybe I should have just left that out of my post altogether. Sorry for the confusion.

Would I succumb to my base instincts and love if it came to a choice between my family dying and torturing a bad guy to prevent my family from dying? Almost certainly. I\'m human. Would I turn my back on my sons if they told me they were gay? Nope. My choice to continue to love them wouldn\'t change the fact that homosexuality goes against what God wants for us. Similarly, my theoretical choice to save my family through the torture of another human being would not justify torture in God\'s eyes.

Winston Churchill is alleged to have once remarked: “\"Americans will always do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the alternatives.” Interesting. I would be more likely to say that Americans will do the right thing once we finally stop basing morality on our own economic or protective self-interests. The tension for most of us regarding this blog seems to be: “I know as a Jesus follower I should be against torture, but I also know that I would perpetrate it if it served my own or my family’s self-interests the best.” Well, yes, we are capable of doing the worst…and most of us probaby would do the worst in certain circumstances. But that seems a poor excuse for not speaking “right” and hopefully, someday, doing “right.”

Mike, I have listened to your sermons for over 13 years, and your main purpose is to get people off their ASSETS. Christians are becoming to lethargic. MAY GOD BLESS YOU PASTOR MIKE. I am praying for you.

Wow! Lots of interesting comments-I have been fortunate to have been at GUM for over 15 years and I believe I keep growing because of the way that Mike and others challenge me to think, act and live my life. Thank you for what you have done for me and for keeping me curious and open to learning more.

I get you Chris...we give Jesus a big black eye when we don\'t represent Him well. But we\'re called to love those brothers and sisters as much as any enemy. How can I love my enemy, when I can\'t even love the \"unloveable\" among my own people? Again, let righteous anger provoke prayer for mercy. I just went to the woodshed with God over this recently, and my heart is bruised. I can relate to any sinner... We\'re all in the same boat.

I agree with your stand on expressing your (God\'s)moral views, even when they overlap into politics. I thought you graciously \"spoke the truth in love.\" I don\'t think \"offended\" was the right word for the dissenter to use. I think it would have been better said that he didn\'t agree. \"Offense\" between brethren is not to be taken lightly and if true means that one or the other has wounded the spiritual conscience of the other. I don\'t that was the case in this instance.

As usual, the problem isn\'t with the diet plan or at least the legitimate ones. The problem is with our weaknesses. And even with the legitimate ones, we still fail, but we do become more and more like our savior. One of the things I\'ve noticed that the enemy does is to work on our minds about scenarios & we tell ourselves how we would respond. I\'m sure the families that were dragged off by the Apostle Paul (as Saul) feared their responses in situations too. Or Stephen. I think we would be suprised at the power of the Holy Spirit to lift us to a very peaceful place in such a circumstance. We know torture is wrong. Personally, if I were in any such circumstances, I would probably bawl like a 6-month-old baby with colic. Something that is a bit comforting if even a cold comfort, is that scripture says that some Christians were horribly tortured not seeking deliverance (rescue from God) in order to obtain a better resurrection. I\'m not sure of all the ins & outs of that but it seems that in situations of a nature like that, God is willing to come to our aide Himself or angelically or through people if we request it. Of course that was for sharing their faith in Christ & living a Christian lifestyle. I do find it interesting that many didn\'t ask God to help. He will be there for us and our children & we should have no anxieties & worries over these things. We just have to stay close to Him & let Him finish the work He has begun in us.

I’ll give you that – in the purest definition of the word, torture could be worse than death itself. However, most reasonable people realize the prisoners at Abu Gharib are better off than the pirates. Remember, the Somalis were brutally killed, extinguished Bata Bing dead. The Abu Gharib folks were made fun of, stripped of their dignity. As I said, enhanced interrogation techniques and torture are two different things. Our techniques did not kill anyone and I don’t think the USA would commit the kind of practice that took the life of Daniel Pearl.

Rich, you might want to Google \"Abu Ghraib\". Wikipedia may be a good start as there many references provided with the entry.

While this is not the place to write a detailed list of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, some findings refute your \"nobody gets hurt.\" fantasy.

- Retrieved on 2008-02-24. \"The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology later ruled al-Jamadi\'s death a homicide, caused by \"blunt force injuries to the torso complicated by compromised respiration.\"\"

- Retrieved on 2007-06-17. \"Taguba said that he saw \"a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.\"\"

\"Enhanced Interrogation\" is a conservative term to whitewash torture - make it sound better so people like you think \"nobody gets hurt, just a little embarrassed.\" Wake up. Fox News is far from \"fair and balanced.\"

How ineffective and dead has the church become if debates on the merits of torture take place in its walls? My heart aches.

You’re right about Fox News – none of the major cable network news shows are fair and balanced.
This is a passionate subject and should be debated.
God Bless

gracious response Rich...

Mike, it has been quite interesting to follow your journey. i so value the history, but also the significance of what it means to the world today, the peace process and the richness of our faith. travel safe and i look forward to your sharing upon your return.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings while on this wonderful trip. I would have loved to have been there with you. That is definitely on my personal bucket list. Reading your blog has been almost as good as being there. Almost. God bless you and we will be praying for your safe return.

That\'s at the top of my bucket list too, Shirley. I\'m anxious to hear what was shared in the meetings. I loved seeing the garden tomb picture. I can\'t imagine how I will feel walking where He walked. Or as my friend said, swimming where Jesus walked!
Praying for your travel home.

What an awesome experience to have. It\'s seems that all of the fighting doesn\'t prevent Christians from celebrating the birthplace of their faith when they are there.

Many churches have the Stations of the Cross exhibited. Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God would visit the scenes of Christ’s Passion daily after His death. As a young boy who spent time serving, singing and worshiping at my church, I had many occasions to follow the road Jesus followed on the day of his death. It was almost considered a sacrament; a holy event to walk and pray the stations. To be able to follow the actual route would be to me The spiritual experience of a lifetime. The Franciscans make that journey every Friday.

At one time, we were going to have the stations of the cross outside on a path, at the church. I don\'t know what happened to that idea. I retreat once a month at Maria Stein, and of course they have it. I find it very meaningful. A good way to stimulate meditation of the Word of God, His mercy, and what I\'ve been given, what Christ endured for my sake. A friend of mine also finds the labyrinth very meaningful for contemplation.

Thank you!

Thanks for guiding an incredibly \'holy\' journey in the footsteps of Jesus Christ.

He is alive!

Thanks much.

I saw this movie once called, \"Welcome to Collinwood\", and George Clooney was dressed like a Jewish man. He had a curl on each side of his face right at about his temple and I am wondering who started that practice or where it came from historically, and what it means. Anyone?

Wikipedia ref.
Following a Biblical commandment not to shave the sides of one\'s face, male members of most Hasidic groups wear long, uncut sideburns called payot (Ashkenazi Hebrew peyos, Yiddish peyes). Many Hasidim shave off the rest of their hair. Not every Hasidic group requires long peyos, and not all Jewish men with peyos are Hasidic, but all groups discourage the shaving of one\'s beard. Hasidic boys receive their first haircuts ceremonially at the age of three years (though Skverrer Hasidim do this at their second birthday). Until then, Hasidic boys have long hair. Many non-Hasidic (and even some non-Orthodox) Jews have adopted this custom.

Thanks Lisa.

Thanks Mike for your blog on this mission of peace and for the efforts all are putting in to this mission. I am reading it daily and praying for its success and influence. God Bless the peacemakers for they shall see God. He is there in your midst.
Shalom

Wow. This just makes me sad to hear all of these stories. I hope that one day soon we will all see that we are God\'s children, and we can at least have that in common. I will keep praying for you.

Mike, I too love reading what you have been doing everyday. Us American\'s do not realize how lucky we are to be able to worship God without having bricks and bottles thrown at us. Read 1 John 4:7-12 Shalom

I am following your visit. Thank you for taking the initiative...in your efforts for peace. \'Fee iman allah\' ( in God\'s protection) God bless

One would think that having their land back which is a miracle even the American Indians haven\'t been blessed with would inspire more resolve for peace from even the Jewish extremists. I do understand their frustration though over Mosques being built right over the graves of people who are proven as their direct descendants. It\'s sad. It was crazy enough with just Judaism & Christianity, but then to have Mohammed start & establish a religion hundreds of years after Christ & then proceed to have Mosques built over sites sacred to those directly descended from not only the Abramic Covenant, but the covenant Christ later established doesn\'t help the situation any. Lotta crazymaking going on over there. I suppose living there might be kinda stressful. The Muslims should relocate there mosque next to the ancient site instead of on top of it. That\'s too simple, I guess. They\'d all probably still find something to fight about. The exremists should then be expected to cooperate with the new situation of two states or face reprimand by the court. It\'s easier for Christians to be all things to all men. So yes there is a dividing wall that requires more than just two states to solve, but then...that\'s up to them. All because Abraham got ahead of God\'s plan by buying into his wife\'s anxieties & violating his slave& and then tossing her out on her rump. What a group. I suppose all three groups have things to be ashamed of. Grace is a beautiful thing.

Mike, this is a powerful blog and reminds me of the work yet to do around the world and in our own back yards. I visited Hebron in 1996 and I remember vividly being lined up against the wall by heavily armed guards before we were allowed to enter. It was very scary and I remember thinking, \"imagine having to go through that every day!\"

It is truly awesome to hear that there are people around the world who are committed to finding a solution for peace. It is time for us to stand up and show the world that peace does exist. We have to be examples by serving the world!

Wow! What an amazing experience you must be having! I can\'t wait to hear all your stories when you come back. Take lots of pictures!

Hey Mike... this is all really interesting, man. It\'s an area I have little understanding of. Your blog posts are helping. Keep up the great work, boss!

Sounds like your making a great impact!

I am discovering that I do not know as much as I thought and have become very interested in learning more about Jersalam and how it can reflect its name \"City of Peace\". Keep the pictures coming and know we are all praying!

Pastor Slaughter, I want to thank you for teaching us to step out of our comfort zones to impact this chaotic world we live in. May we provide a witness to those who follow behind us. I\'m praying for your safety in returning home. God Bless.

Can\'t wait to hear about it in person. We are praying for the rest of your trip.

It could be that there aren\'t as many Christians there because of the chasm is so great between the descendants of Abraham. Although God made promises to Ishmael concerning Ishmael\'s descendants, they were not the same as the covenant He made with Abraham & his descendants. Christianity being a different ballgame altogether even though all peoples are invited to accept Christ.

At what point do we tell people that it does matter what you believe, or \"come out of the closet\" so to speak in regards to Christ being the only way of salvation regardless of good intentions. If we are confident in our faith, can we allow others to be in error while the Spirit works with them maybe through us or others who have staked a claim with Christ. I personally have been somewhat aggressive in letting people know the deal, and probably a little too soon...before they could accept the words. Interests being mostly limited to the Gospel creates an intensity that may be seen as overbearing & probably even a little intimidating. Some people that I thought were probably fairly hostile surprised me with their loveable manner once I knew them and spoke with them. Mohammed\'s experience is so contradictory & unrelated to Abraham, it seems that it would be obvious, but I guess it isn\'t.

You know, I was searching the scriptures concerning things, and without exception, and throughout scripture whenever there were major doctrinal changes or significant changes in covenants, it was always communicated initially by God Himself. Never an angel. They gave messages or interpretations or aide, and other things, but they never brought transitional covenental change as a sole agent. No covenant or change was given soley by an angel. Maybe foretelling of some things to come such as Mary\'s pregnancy, etc., but never serious dispensations of truth. It always came by God & then men.

The PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization) is historically & traditionally known for public expressions of peace initiatives while at the same time funding Hamas & other terrorist organizations. Hopefully, things will improve. I\'ll pray for a safe return home.

Jerusalem will become both a gate to heaven and a gate to Hell, as Jesus said, "Enter in at the narrow gate, for wide is the way that leads to destruction, but narrow is the way that leads to everlasting lie (heaven)..."! Jesus is the Gate that leads to life; He is the eye of the needle that so confused the disciples.

Although our Messiah the Christ had his earthly origins in Israel, there seems to be a disconnect there for many of us due to the increasing tensions between Judaists & Muslims. Many see America as the homeland & main hangout for Christians? Being a firm believer in actions speaking louder than words, My hope is that the desire for peace will manifest itself in action for those who truly desire it. Through Christ we can have the very God of the universe living within us, and while landmarks are important for many personal reasons, I\'m sure I\'d rather have God than a symbol of Him. This is our world. These are our children. One day I will go to Israel & I will live there & I hope I don\'t get blown up @ least not until Israel is grafted back in & the Muslims finally \"get it\". But maybe it\'ll happen the other way around. I hope all of you have a productive trip.

Dear Lord, Keep Mike and the rest of the men safe and help and guide them as they do your work. Amen

DITTO THAT!!

This evening (Friday, May 08) at 7:00 p.m. 91.3 WYSO will be broadcasting an episode of PRI\'s The World. The topic concerns the near-extinct presence of Christians in Bethlehem.

There are many extremists in all faith camps, and some faith camps consist only of extremists. I can\'t speak for all Christians, but I think there is a crisis that is seeking a transition for the people of God, and many want that. Fear keeps us from loving people who are not only different culturally, but especially religiously. It\'s as if we are afraid that they will somehow take truth from us or Jesus or whatever, and we will be deceived, and so we draw back or get legalistic. We aren\'t sure how to relate and love while still living as Christ would have us. We as Christians should have our own house in order before we go trying to influence people who want to like you know....kill us. That way when we get slammed, we\'re singin\' praises all the way to heaven. Smiling & being filled with the joy of the Spirit makes people think one of two things: that we are either \"on\" something or they wonder what we have that allows us to be bold & confident & respond in love. Once we convince them were sober then we can tell them \"Jesus gave me this song\" (as Tim Hawkins so eloquently puts it), and who knows how great the harvest will be. Blessings on your mission.

Praying for your mission. You are so right about the divisions in the church community. Since I have move to Georgia and attend a Bapist Church, I am labeled a Yankee Methodist. They also say I talk different.