I am physically unable to attend church right now. Your blog is a wonderful reminder that we, as a church, stand with and behind you, who are doing the best things you can identify to follow Jesus. Thank you for sharing the details of your Middle East trip! As so often before, you have been at the right and best place to be at the right (although possibly NOT the best) time! Thank you for allowing a poor wretch like me to vicariously participate in your righteous efforts!

Very interesting topic. Sometimes I think we as Christians interpret the scriptures about God knowing the end from the beginning with a kind of \"fate\" mentality. I\'ve wrestled with that one myself. When God says He sees the end from the beginning, He does that while taking into account all of our actions and prayers, etc. So, while He does know the choices we\'ve made & will make as well as how things will be at certain points in history, we don\'t, and He leaves the choice of prayer & action on behalf of His Kingdom to us. Although He is always prompting all men to repent and all repentant ones to move on behalf of the Kingdom, the secret things belong to God, and He offers hope to all all the time. That\'s how & why we walk by faith. We should respond in reality, and that being that we don\'t know the end from the beginning, and so give it all ya got. No effort is wasted. I like the times when things come together, and people say, Ohh, now we get it. I think of the trip to Israel as a seed that has yet to fully manifest. No seed planted from the Kingdom is without Kingdom effect. Knowledge is power also and the trip gives personal insight for purpose of prayer, etc.

I think also that we expect the Jews to somehow be superior even though as a whole, they are not converted. Even after what they\'ve been through, there still seems to be a remarkable amount of pride there.

Testimonies have power & prophecy does the warfare when we are given information about future events. The faith-building it produces in us and others is phenomonal. Any time God has revealed any detail about a future thing, it has created an amazing faith & sense of purpose & direction in my life, and the lives of others. I can\'t even imagine what it must be for God. To know literally everything. I\'m sure in our state, we couldn\'t take it. To get our mind around God would be like putting Him in a box. Like killing Him in a sense. Still, it\'s hard to be us sometimes. The not knowing. Or at least not knowing what God does.

Mike, I\'m not sure how I feel about the video on this post. If the mission is peace, I\'m not sure what the point of stirring up feelings against Israel accomplishes. That might not have been the intention, but that\'s what it does...what else could it do? If the point of all of this is reconciliation, then it seems inappropriate to stir up negative sentiments against Israel, and sympathy for the Palestinians. Shouldn\'t we stir the love for both? Why is it necessary to help expose.....love covers a multitude of sins. You were the most important person there in that group. You represented Christ(officially and personally) and his purpose. The rest represented their philosophy\'s, traditions, maybe politics, or possibly just high ideals. I feel we need to be on our toes, and guard against using worldly wisdom to accomplish Christ purpose. The scripture \"what communion has darkness with light\" comes to mind. We can be unequally yoked in more ways than just marriage. We are to be holy, different. That video felt like what I see if I watch any number of tv news, depending of course on the personal slant of the network. Are there any video\'s of Palestinians and Israelies expressing desire for peace? Exhibiting love for one\'s enemy? A committment to compromise? Show those. We certainly won\'t endear them to each other by featuring one victimizing the other. And that\'s been on both sides. Focus on what\'s noble, beautiful, worthy, honorable in both cultures.

I can\'t even imagine what it would be like to be faced with so many enemies on every side who don\'t want to admit I have a right to exist. What has happened to this shopkeeper is awful. You are right that there are problems on both sides, but if the radically violent Palestinians would stop lobbing bombs at Israeli civilians and admit Israel has the right to simply exist, I suspect that would be a great movement forward toward a real and workable solution.

Why are we not connected to the church in Israel? If we\'re looking for hope of reconciliation, I would think that would be a good place to begin. Asher Intrater, a messianic Jew, has a ministry there that also serves the needy palestinians in the area. I\'ve heard him teach, and feel like he has a prophetic voice for Israel.

House Demolition is a controversial tactic used by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) against Palestinians in Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and against Jewish communities during the course of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict... Official IDF explanations for house demolitions include use as a counter-insurgency security measure to impede or halt militant operations, as a regulatory measure to enforce building codes and regulations, and as deterrence against the resistance movement in the occupied territories by punishing those suspected of aiding militants, and/or their families. This from Wikipedia…

Netanyahu and the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, both say they are ready to resume talks without preconditions. However, all such negotiations are in effect suspended. While in Washington recently, Obama encouraged Netanyahu to take the bull by the horns – so to speak – and get serious about the peace movement. Hopefully, the same message will be sent to the Palestinian leader.

One of the Israeli demands is that Iran forgo its nuclear program before talks with the Palestinians can resume. A positive relationship between the two sides could be used to force Iran into compliance. We’ll see where that goes.

Mike, I appreciate your contribution this forum challenges us with. I for one didn’t really understand fully the Israeli-Palestinian conflict like I should have.

I\'m glad you went to the middle east. I knnow that some people look at scripture and say what is the use it will come to a bad end.But before Israel became a nation again people interpeted Israel to mean the church. We need to get back to basics. Love the Lord and love people thats are part in this life. We need to work for peace and justice. The kingdom of God is now. Let us enlarge the kingdom today

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

The peace that Jesus speaks of is peace with God through faith in Him; there is no other way to have peace with God; this is why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace. This is why Jesus said, "My peace I leave with you...not the peace the world gives i.e. false peace treaties, made but not meant to be kept; unsaved man cannot keep treaties, even peace treaties. They are out for power and financial gain and control. We are to pray for the Peace of Jerusalem, that Peace that will reign for a thousand years (eternity?); The Psalmist said, "I am for peace, but when I speak, they are for war..." and so it is with man today..."They will say, "peacd and safty, peace and safety; but there will be no peace...!

Through my years as a Christian, I have developed a strong passion to ask people why they believe what they believe. All kinds of people of all kinds of faiths. I want to challenge them to really examine their beliefs, but first I just want to know all about them, and hear their stories. It\'s a marvelous experience to see people really seek God\'s perspective & will in their lives. No one is ever unaffected by talkig to God. I guess that\'s a step further than what is going on with the group that traveled with you to Israel, but It was something that I wanted to share because it\'s really just come to me recently, and we hold on to those religious toupees with all of our might sometimes. Personally, I pretty much had mine stapled down. Being challenged in my faith made my life so much better.

\"Christians want to torture people. Well, maybe they don’t want to ACTUALLY torture people, they just want other people to torture people. More than any other group in a recent survey.\"

That was the opening paragraph from a recent blog I read at www(dot)conversantlife(dot)com/global-concerns/christians-supporting-torture-how-ugly-can-it-get

Not only are Christians the largest demographic to support torture but people unaffiliated with *any* religious organization were *least* likely to back torture.

Huh?

Christians try to defend torture by equivocating what, exactly defines torture. So the WWJD test tells you that, yes Jesus would advocate water-boarding? How about broomstick rape? Sorry if that last one offends your K-Love ears but that is exactly the kind of thing were talking about. Would you like to have any of the above done to yourself? How about a wife or a daughter?

Oh wait - Christians and their loved ones don\'t *deserve* it like [insert current list of undesirables here] do. Try replacing current undesirables [terrorists] with undesirables from 200 years ago [slaves] and does the \"but they deserve it\" defense still hold? God help you if you answer yes.

Do torture-supporting Christians really want to go down in history judged in the same way that Christians who advocated slavery are? My God, aren\'t we better than that? Isn\'t this way of life Jesus taught not up for negotiation and equivocation? Isn\'t there some sort of cognitive dissonance when you say to yourself \"Jesus likes torture?\" I don\'t care if the United States does open itself up to attack because we didn\'t torture our enemies. My principles - God\'s principles - don\'t allow me to support evil perpetrated on another human being, no matter how deserving of it I think they are. We will not bring good upon ourselves or the world by employing evil.

Couldn\'t agree with you more, Mike.

Chris, it\'s good to mourn what you see wrong. I thought though, you needed some encouragement. Before Jesus comes back the church will be beautiful. He is refining and shaking it down. Mourning is a good thing, as long as it brings about a redemptive solution. Don\'t let the extremist\' steal your joy. Elijah felt alone too but there are many Jesus followers who are committed to wholeheartedness and living by the spirit of the law. Let it provoke you, but to love and prayer..for mercy for this country, the church, no matter what has to happen or what will be the vehicle.
Isa 60:1-3
Arise, shine;
For your light has come!
And the glory of the LORD is risen upon you.
2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the earth,
And deep darkness the people;
But the LORD will arise over you,
And His glory will be seen upon you.
3 The Gentiles shall come to your light,
And kings to the brightness of your rising.
NKJV

Eph 5:26-28

26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
NKJV
Rev 19:7-8
7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.\" 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Are we talking about enhanced interrogation techniques or torture because I feel there is a big difference. I’ll come back to that in a moment. When President Obama authorized the Navy Seals to shoot and kill pirates off the coast of Africa, wasn’t that worse than torture – those poor boys died. Most American’s hailed Obama as a hero and said good riddance to the thugs. I don’t think that’s what Jesus would have done. I myself felt a little American pride but it didn’t last long. However, I think the President did what he had to do. We live in a world that needs drastic brutal action at times.

Speaking for myself, I come to church to be more in touch with God and to be and act more religious. I love the fellowship. I don’t care if you talk about the space shuttle as long as there is a fulfilling message. I do not agree with you politically on some things but that doesn’t bother me at all; it used to but we grow.

Back to the torture - If we make an enemy uncomfortable to gain strategic information, I’m fine with that. If we use the broom stick in an unconventional way, I’m not. This whole topic from a national perspective is to draw constituents into a political camp. Were all pawns.

There was an American journalist named Daniel Pearl who worked for the Wall Street Journal and was based in Mumbai, India. He was murdered back in 2002 – beheaded by a group headed by Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh in Pakistan. If his rescue could have been conducted with a military technique known as water boarding, do you think his parents would have approved? That’s the question. If we are willing to let our own children die at the hands of the most brutal people known just to say “I don’t believe in torture” I think were living an untruthful existence. Remember the pirates, that was certainly worse than torture…..

If I am honest with myself, what would I do if my children were about to be killed by someone? Would I kill to protect them? What if they were kidnapped? Would I risk it all to save their lives?

I don\'t think most \"Christians\" would like my responses.

Rich B your post was very insightful, it made me examine this issue more closely.

Chris your posting deeply disturbed me. Especially the part were you said....\"My principles - God\'s principles\" Wow, maybe we need to change the saying to what would Chris do?

You know, the Church is not the world & the world will do things differently than we do. Without faith, we are left to our own human reasoning to solve problems & issues. Not having the wisdom of God, but only of man to solve problems does lead people to make less-than-spiritually-mature decisions. It\'s expected. If they ask us or we have an option of voting on an issue, then we get to put our two-cents in, and thankfully in this country, we get to do that often. You are so right I think that torture does terrible things to us on both sides. I\'d rather be just straight-up killed outright than tortured. ick. As a Christian, it is hard to deal with sometimes that I\'m here to represent another kingdom. Unfortunately, that requires my suffering in a world without faith. I think that\'s how they get their faith. Seeing us being willing to do it another way. I think many of us are learning how to effectively make a difference even politcally w/o compromising our faith. We do what we can & leave it up to God I guess. If you\'re quoting scripture from the pulpit, then you\'re prophesying. Expect people to blame you for speaking God\'s perspective. I\'m sure you can handle it.

Good to have you home Mike!
Whether local or abroad,\"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.\" Matt 5:9

Thank you for your wisdom and knowledge Mike. I am grateful that you reinforce standing on that moral higher ground and without daily prayer and the word of God, it is easy to default to my human sinful nature. Also, thank you for touching on how it effects the soul of the person inflicting the torture. How many people of faith will we loose or have lost to suicide because they will not be able to make right what they have done in their mind, heart, and soul?

Chris, The good is there though there are days that we struggle to see it because we are overwhelmed with the violence of our world. I pray you are comforted by Lisa\'s words. Stand strong that mustard-seed can see you through.

Braden, you misunderstood what I meant but admittedly I worded it poorly. What I meant in a nutshell was that I have adopted (or am trying to adopt) the way to live as God explained it. You have to be able to make some kind of value-based judgement in order to live by God\'s will. So when I say that I try to exercise the principle of \"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you\" into my life, all I am saying is that I am adopting the principles/values/laws God laid out before us -- so that my principles and beliefs are those that come from God, not the world\'s. I\'m not fool enough or arrogant enough to believe that my life is a perfect example of how to live or that God == me. At some point a person can say with honesty that he or she is trying to live their life according to God without equating themselves to God, right? Of course I also understand, for example, every gay-hating (hating - not disapproving) Christian believes they are living out of God\'s principles too so maybe I should have just left that out of my post altogether. Sorry for the confusion.

Would I succumb to my base instincts and love if it came to a choice between my family dying and torturing a bad guy to prevent my family from dying? Almost certainly. I\'m human. Would I turn my back on my sons if they told me they were gay? Nope. My choice to continue to love them wouldn\'t change the fact that homosexuality goes against what God wants for us. Similarly, my theoretical choice to save my family through the torture of another human being would not justify torture in God\'s eyes.

Winston Churchill is alleged to have once remarked: “\"Americans will always do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the alternatives.” Interesting. I would be more likely to say that Americans will do the right thing once we finally stop basing morality on our own economic or protective self-interests. The tension for most of us regarding this blog seems to be: “I know as a Jesus follower I should be against torture, but I also know that I would perpetrate it if it served my own or my family’s self-interests the best.” Well, yes, we are capable of doing the worst…and most of us probaby would do the worst in certain circumstances. But that seems a poor excuse for not speaking “right” and hopefully, someday, doing “right.”

Mike, I have listened to your sermons for over 13 years, and your main purpose is to get people off their ASSETS. Christians are becoming to lethargic. MAY GOD BLESS YOU PASTOR MIKE. I am praying for you.

Wow! Lots of interesting comments-I have been fortunate to have been at GUM for over 15 years and I believe I keep growing because of the way that Mike and others challenge me to think, act and live my life. Thank you for what you have done for me and for keeping me curious and open to learning more.

I get you Chris...we give Jesus a big black eye when we don\'t represent Him well. But we\'re called to love those brothers and sisters as much as any enemy. How can I love my enemy, when I can\'t even love the \"unloveable\" among my own people? Again, let righteous anger provoke prayer for mercy. I just went to the woodshed with God over this recently, and my heart is bruised. I can relate to any sinner... We\'re all in the same boat.

I agree with your stand on expressing your (God\'s)moral views, even when they overlap into politics. I thought you graciously \"spoke the truth in love.\" I don\'t think \"offended\" was the right word for the dissenter to use. I think it would have been better said that he didn\'t agree. \"Offense\" between brethren is not to be taken lightly and if true means that one or the other has wounded the spiritual conscience of the other. I don\'t that was the case in this instance.

As usual, the problem isn\'t with the diet plan or at least the legitimate ones. The problem is with our weaknesses. And even with the legitimate ones, we still fail, but we do become more and more like our savior. One of the things I\'ve noticed that the enemy does is to work on our minds about scenarios & we tell ourselves how we would respond. I\'m sure the families that were dragged off by the Apostle Paul (as Saul) feared their responses in situations too. Or Stephen. I think we would be suprised at the power of the Holy Spirit to lift us to a very peaceful place in such a circumstance. We know torture is wrong. Personally, if I were in any such circumstances, I would probably bawl like a 6-month-old baby with colic. Something that is a bit comforting if even a cold comfort, is that scripture says that some Christians were horribly tortured not seeking deliverance (rescue from God) in order to obtain a better resurrection. I\'m not sure of all the ins & outs of that but it seems that in situations of a nature like that, God is willing to come to our aide Himself or angelically or through people if we request it. Of course that was for sharing their faith in Christ & living a Christian lifestyle. I do find it interesting that many didn\'t ask God to help. He will be there for us and our children & we should have no anxieties & worries over these things. We just have to stay close to Him & let Him finish the work He has begun in us.

I’ll give you that – in the purest definition of the word, torture could be worse than death itself. However, most reasonable people realize the prisoners at Abu Gharib are better off than the pirates. Remember, the Somalis were brutally killed, extinguished Bata Bing dead. The Abu Gharib folks were made fun of, stripped of their dignity. As I said, enhanced interrogation techniques and torture are two different things. Our techniques did not kill anyone and I don’t think the USA would commit the kind of practice that took the life of Daniel Pearl.

Rich, you might want to Google \"Abu Ghraib\". Wikipedia may be a good start as there many references provided with the entry.

While this is not the place to write a detailed list of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, some findings refute your \"nobody gets hurt.\" fantasy.

- Retrieved on 2008-02-24. \"The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology later ruled al-Jamadi\'s death a homicide, caused by \"blunt force injuries to the torso complicated by compromised respiration.\"\"

- Retrieved on 2007-06-17. \"Taguba said that he saw \"a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.\"\"

\"Enhanced Interrogation\" is a conservative term to whitewash torture - make it sound better so people like you think \"nobody gets hurt, just a little embarrassed.\" Wake up. Fox News is far from \"fair and balanced.\"

How ineffective and dead has the church become if debates on the merits of torture take place in its walls? My heart aches.

You’re right about Fox News – none of the major cable network news shows are fair and balanced.
This is a passionate subject and should be debated.
God Bless

gracious response Rich...

Mike, I appreciate your clarification. I also appreciate, and am grateful for the stance you took Sunday in your sermon. You stated that if it were one of your family that was in danger from another, 'You better believe I'd put a cap in their behind. But I can't teach that.' In essence, that's not what Jesus would do, but you alluded to the fact that you're not that perfect yet. Hurray! It's refreshing to hear that sort of candor. I'm not that perfect yet either.

I also believe that I will be held accountable for my actions on judgement day. And if, by my use of 'enhanced interrogation techniques', which are refereed by a human rights attorney and a doctor, I can save the lives of several thousand innocents by foiling a terrorist plot, I'll take that judgement.

Mike, it has been quite interesting to follow your journey. i so value the history, but also the significance of what it means to the world today, the peace process and the richness of our faith. travel safe and i look forward to your sharing upon your return.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings while on this wonderful trip. I would have loved to have been there with you. That is definitely on my personal bucket list. Reading your blog has been almost as good as being there. Almost. God bless you and we will be praying for your safe return.

That\'s at the top of my bucket list too, Shirley. I\'m anxious to hear what was shared in the meetings. I loved seeing the garden tomb picture. I can\'t imagine how I will feel walking where He walked. Or as my friend said, swimming where Jesus walked!
Praying for your travel home.

What an awesome experience to have. It\'s seems that all of the fighting doesn\'t prevent Christians from celebrating the birthplace of their faith when they are there.

Many churches have the Stations of the Cross exhibited. Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God would visit the scenes of Christ’s Passion daily after His death. As a young boy who spent time serving, singing and worshiping at my church, I had many occasions to follow the road Jesus followed on the day of his death. It was almost considered a sacrament; a holy event to walk and pray the stations. To be able to follow the actual route would be to me The spiritual experience of a lifetime. The Franciscans make that journey every Friday.

At one time, we were going to have the stations of the cross outside on a path, at the church. I don\'t know what happened to that idea. I retreat once a month at Maria Stein, and of course they have it. I find it very meaningful. A good way to stimulate meditation of the Word of God, His mercy, and what I\'ve been given, what Christ endured for my sake. A friend of mine also finds the labyrinth very meaningful for contemplation.

Thank you!

Thanks for guiding an incredibly \'holy\' journey in the footsteps of Jesus Christ.

He is alive!

Thanks much.

I saw this movie once called, \"Welcome to Collinwood\", and George Clooney was dressed like a Jewish man. He had a curl on each side of his face right at about his temple and I am wondering who started that practice or where it came from historically, and what it means. Anyone?

Wikipedia ref.
Following a Biblical commandment not to shave the sides of one\'s face, male members of most Hasidic groups wear long, uncut sideburns called payot (Ashkenazi Hebrew peyos, Yiddish peyes). Many Hasidim shave off the rest of their hair. Not every Hasidic group requires long peyos, and not all Jewish men with peyos are Hasidic, but all groups discourage the shaving of one\'s beard. Hasidic boys receive their first haircuts ceremonially at the age of three years (though Skverrer Hasidim do this at their second birthday). Until then, Hasidic boys have long hair. Many non-Hasidic (and even some non-Orthodox) Jews have adopted this custom.

Thanks Lisa.